Being very human here because I have come to truly appreciate and support you and your work. As much as I want to agree with your new rant, my unmuted reaction was, “It is just business!” You are a veteran of prior battles with publishers. They may print the truth, but they only get to be successful through practices of deceptive tactics. Nope, you won’t find many photos of publishers in the cathedral, but more likely at the post office. Ouch! That may be too harsh, but it makes the point that publishing is a business and one of the tenants of success in business is the ability to negotiate. Anyway, it makes sense that since you have not published in a while, the familiarity and search quality of your name will decline somewhat in the periods between new book launches (presumably associated with a lower level of promotion by the same publisher, who would want to take credit for their promotions increasing your online popularity anyway). There are several ways to turn that argument around. One of the best ways is to use their own data against them and show how other artist’s ‘engagement rates’ improved during times of promotion for new publications. The other part is to accept that the world of published books is also diminished due largely to Amazon business practices (to use books as loss leading lures to sell other more profitable items) and the addiction to phones and social media is a big part of why younger people in particular aren't reading as much. But you know this already and your agent has it printed on their forehead. Be creative, AND be competitive. But don’t let them get you down with their tired old negotiating tropes. (Insert well know cartoon picture of a frog, halfway down the throat of a stork, holding onto and closing the throat of the bird from the outside using its front feet, refusing to be swallowed.) You are the future of poetry! I would suggest the joy of your work is not in its success, but in the creative process of figuring out ways or creating new things that can take us further down that path to where you want to go. It’s all part of living in the moment and not getting too focused on our goals. Or as one of my favorite Matthew McConaughey quotes goes… “Joy is a process, while happiness is a destination. One can always find joy in how we make that journey much more than what’s waiting at the destination.” Keep at it… that next masterpiece is not gonna write or sell itself.
Always appreciate your opposing viewpoints and devil's advocate stances here Kevin, and on this one I think maybe the message I was trying to get across didn't land right or got lost in the shuffle. I understand that business is business, and this post wasn't about the business of publishing, wasn't about me being able to, or not being able to get book deals, it was a broader thing about what happens IF the business of the algorithmically chosen "select few" becomes the only business? What happens to art if the only way anyone gets to see it is if some robotic algorithm and social media engagement decides it gets seen? That's where I was aiming this, not at me, not even at my books, but at the bigger question and concern that we're allowing insignificant metrics to dictate the art we allow out into the open market. THAT is terrifying and is much bigger than "Just business."
Understood. The challenge did seem more personal, but the bigger picture is truly daunting when we focus on that. I also have a skeptical view on new technology and the general excitement about their applications in daily life. One of my favorite sayings is “ technology is great, when it works.” Sorry that my perception is more of an antagonist. Every village has one, I guess. I would prefer to be viewed as a contributor, so I need to work on that. I did sign up for your Patreon, so there should be more opportunities for improvement here.
First off, love that picture of you right at the beginning. That’s an indie movie shot for sure.
Second, I too fear a world dictated by social media engagement instead of artistry and the combined bravery of the creators and the people willing to take a risk on them and their art.
And. I couldn’t help but sense a connection to your Signal Fire and what I have seen change in my classroom over the years. I used to have students who would “sneak” reading books instead of doing their work or when their work was done. I used to have students who would doodle on their assignments or draw pictures and I would hang them on my wall. Now I have students who hurry to finish their work hoping I will let them go on their phones. So I worry some artists may never realize they are artists because of the peer pressure of being obsessed with their phones.
Ahh, Sarah snapped that pic in Edinburgh one night! Your observation about your classroom is one we've seen too, with teenagers in our own home. ALL the creative outputs they once enjoyed and pursued, are gone. All of them. It's heartbreaking.
Oh man. I hear this and it makes me so sad as we watch art as we know it, slowly and painfully go extinct like a white rhino or those cute little mini vaquita dolphins. We see it happening in slow motion. We protest. We sign petitions. But just like that, the last one is gone forever. I fear this so very much because I want the poets and musicians and artists that I love to be able to feed themselves in return for all they give to the world. Because when you are a creative, the art will always flow out of you. Whether you are sharing it with the whole world, or just your world. You can't stop it from bursting free from your heart and soul. But the stress and strain of staying true to your art and not being eaten up by the system we are all crying out against casts such a dark shadow over those who struggle with the whole starving artist imagery. An imagery that was created by parasitic higher ups the of record labels, streaming platforms and publishers.
The need to be a content creator in addition to being an artist is hard enough, but sure, a new medium to carry forth that which is created. Sounds great. We can make this work... But like the early days of crack, it's only free at first until we are all hooked in so deep that we can't live without it and then all of a sudden, you need to pay if you actually want anyone to see your work. It is the reason why I heart the fuck out of everything on social media. Stories, posts; Facebook, Instagram, TikTok. I am basically like a boomer mom with my likes. Because I KNOW that when people like my posts and stories, they get seen way more. I use social media for fundraising and if I don't pay to boosts posts it makes it really hard to get our message out. I also notice that even though I have way more followers on my work pages, I get more attention and interaction when I post on my personal profiles because, they have the algorithms set up to make sure people don't see your pages unless you are paying. Which sucks. And maybe it is a worthwhile investment, and maybe this is where marketing budgets are allocated to now instead of magazine ads or billboards, but that doesn't help the small independent people out there just trying to organically get their message out. So if I can help others by liking all their shit, I am not too cool to be elusive with my hearts!
So maybe that is how we can all beat the system. It is actually the very least we can do to show someone our support. Just like all the things! Support your independent artists in spaces like this and pay the five bucks a month to the creative people who touch your soul and motivate your healing and growth as a person; who give you the soundtrack and imagery to your own emotions. Buy books and records and merch whenever possible and whatever you spend on the convenience of streaming, be sure the spend the same by supporting an independent artist each month. Because if we are not careful, it will all be AI garbage and we will be too numb to even notice.
It is hard to quantify the gratitude I feel for what art gives me. How can we pay someone back for how a song or a poem makes us feel? When it gets us through the worst or the best moments of our lives? A bag of coffee? Exotic spices? Random secondhand clothing? A couple bucks a month? Doesn’t feel like it adds up on the scales of reciprocity, but I’m grateful when I can do something to show the artists that mean so much to me, that what they do matters and that the world is a better place thanks to what they give us.
Wow Heather, touche on every single bit of this. What a thoughtful addition to this conversation, as per usual. We had a long talk about this at Gregory's last show, the strange reality that we cannot just be artists anymore, we have to be snake oil salespeople, we have to be online performers, marketers, grifters. It's sad.
Supporting artists is the most important thing, in whatever capacity we can. Your closing paragraph just shows how beautiful you are inside and out, and all your support is beyond appreciated, I hope you feel that every day.
It feels like a reflection of the political, if people feel they aren't represented they disengage and become isolated. If they feel they are being spoken to directly in a way that is meaningful they step forward.
Voices who help people connect with those who are different by definition cannot be beige, they express those truths that reflect the spectrum of life that we all experience.
Commercial interests like big Pharma, big Ag and big Publishing need to be challenged - humanity and our planet is not served when big Profit is their only driving force.
Power to poets with a small p who yes need to make a buck and may be commercially successful but do not have Profit as their god.
“Social media” is one of the best and worst things that has happened in my lifetime. Best because I see more pictures of my faraway family and friends than I would if we were still relying on landline phones and letters in the post. Worst because things don’t have to be real or good, just trendy. I’m yet to read a “booktok sensation” that’s been worth a damn. But they are in every bookshop and coming soon to theatres near us because they managed to work the system and get the hype. But when I want to find a poem to send to a friend in need, I go to my bookshelf, not my phone. So I really hope you get that publishing deal, Tyler. Can we do a pre-order type thing to demonstrate demand?
YES Kit, best and absolutely worst. And as for the book, I have some stuff in the works, and your support will be absolutely vital when it's time. Trust that. :)
I feel this so deep in my core. And it is one of my great internal struggles. We need passion in the art we consume or it becomes propaganda. Art is meant to expand our worlds. Transport us on a budget. Open our minds and expand empathy. But the business of art kills that.
I heard an AI created song and felt it stab the hope out of my heart. So I wrote a poem about it. And now I'm writing a book about it. I wish we lived in a world where I know it could get published. That it could reach people that need to hear it. But we don't. And maybe that's reason enough for me to keep working at it. Become a rebel against the machine.
I feel your sentiments here. And I wish for all artists big and small to find ways for true, passionate, creatively to shine through.
I feel this. My two cents, as someone who works as a freelancer in the publishing world - self-publishing can be a damn good way to go these days! You have the audience.
Touche Rachel...Also, someday I'd love to pick your brain about making some extra income going back to the freelancing world, where I spent many years before all this.
First of all, I would kill for another book. I have every book you've published and am always hungry for more. Even if you have to self-publish, I think you should do it. Always find a way to share your art. You already know there's plenty of us out there ready to consume it and celebrate it.
Second, I feel the social media struggle deeply. Having two businesses of my own, I feel like I'm supposed to be "playing the game" and trying to get more engagement so I can grow and yada yada. But so much about social media feels inauthentic to me. I prefer to post quality over quantity. Even if it only amounts to a few posts a month. I struggle with the guilt of not posting or engaging though, because it seems to be quite literally required of us these days if we want to be successful in the world. But I will continue to fight the status quo and try to use social media in the most authentic ways I can. I may never be "famous" or "viral," but I know the work I do and the art I create is important. The people that matter find me and support me in other ways. I truly hope for a day when social media can dwindle a bit, go back to basics, become more about the connection and sharing of genuine moments that we used to love.
No need to kill. I MIGHT have some news to talk about pretty soon. Fingers crossed ;) And yes, to all you said. I'm so very sick of playing the game. Even here, trying to convince more people to be paid subscribers, I'm just at a total loss how to do so, but it's so hard keeping this place running with how much work it involves without that support. How do I convince even 10% of people that it's worth $5 a month? You'd think 1 out of every 10 would think so. :(
Tyler,
Being very human here because I have come to truly appreciate and support you and your work. As much as I want to agree with your new rant, my unmuted reaction was, “It is just business!” You are a veteran of prior battles with publishers. They may print the truth, but they only get to be successful through practices of deceptive tactics. Nope, you won’t find many photos of publishers in the cathedral, but more likely at the post office. Ouch! That may be too harsh, but it makes the point that publishing is a business and one of the tenants of success in business is the ability to negotiate. Anyway, it makes sense that since you have not published in a while, the familiarity and search quality of your name will decline somewhat in the periods between new book launches (presumably associated with a lower level of promotion by the same publisher, who would want to take credit for their promotions increasing your online popularity anyway). There are several ways to turn that argument around. One of the best ways is to use their own data against them and show how other artist’s ‘engagement rates’ improved during times of promotion for new publications. The other part is to accept that the world of published books is also diminished due largely to Amazon business practices (to use books as loss leading lures to sell other more profitable items) and the addiction to phones and social media is a big part of why younger people in particular aren't reading as much. But you know this already and your agent has it printed on their forehead. Be creative, AND be competitive. But don’t let them get you down with their tired old negotiating tropes. (Insert well know cartoon picture of a frog, halfway down the throat of a stork, holding onto and closing the throat of the bird from the outside using its front feet, refusing to be swallowed.) You are the future of poetry! I would suggest the joy of your work is not in its success, but in the creative process of figuring out ways or creating new things that can take us further down that path to where you want to go. It’s all part of living in the moment and not getting too focused on our goals. Or as one of my favorite Matthew McConaughey quotes goes… “Joy is a process, while happiness is a destination. One can always find joy in how we make that journey much more than what’s waiting at the destination.” Keep at it… that next masterpiece is not gonna write or sell itself.
I think we need to celebrate the anniversary of your retirement, Kevin.
We really lucked out that you landed here.
Always appreciate your opposing viewpoints and devil's advocate stances here Kevin, and on this one I think maybe the message I was trying to get across didn't land right or got lost in the shuffle. I understand that business is business, and this post wasn't about the business of publishing, wasn't about me being able to, or not being able to get book deals, it was a broader thing about what happens IF the business of the algorithmically chosen "select few" becomes the only business? What happens to art if the only way anyone gets to see it is if some robotic algorithm and social media engagement decides it gets seen? That's where I was aiming this, not at me, not even at my books, but at the bigger question and concern that we're allowing insignificant metrics to dictate the art we allow out into the open market. THAT is terrifying and is much bigger than "Just business."
Understood. The challenge did seem more personal, but the bigger picture is truly daunting when we focus on that. I also have a skeptical view on new technology and the general excitement about their applications in daily life. One of my favorite sayings is “ technology is great, when it works.” Sorry that my perception is more of an antagonist. Every village has one, I guess. I would prefer to be viewed as a contributor, so I need to work on that. I did sign up for your Patreon, so there should be more opportunities for improvement here.
First off, love that picture of you right at the beginning. That’s an indie movie shot for sure.
Second, I too fear a world dictated by social media engagement instead of artistry and the combined bravery of the creators and the people willing to take a risk on them and their art.
And. I couldn’t help but sense a connection to your Signal Fire and what I have seen change in my classroom over the years. I used to have students who would “sneak” reading books instead of doing their work or when their work was done. I used to have students who would doodle on their assignments or draw pictures and I would hang them on my wall. Now I have students who hurry to finish their work hoping I will let them go on their phones. So I worry some artists may never realize they are artists because of the peer pressure of being obsessed with their phones.
Ahh, Sarah snapped that pic in Edinburgh one night! Your observation about your classroom is one we've seen too, with teenagers in our own home. ALL the creative outputs they once enjoyed and pursued, are gone. All of them. It's heartbreaking.
Tyler - gonna keep it short and sweet brother
You are a freakin ROCKSTAR!
An INSPIRATION!!!
As a poet and especially as a human being
I love you my dude!
LOOK WHO IS TALKIN AMIGO! :) I love you buddy.
I will be here as long as I’m living & I’ll be first in line whenever your book is finally released. 🫶
So, the War Doctor has entered the chat. And, this here Sunday at Church is his electric guitar.
Happy Autumn, Fellow Souffle Girl x
And we are so proud of him. All my love, my friend. 🖤
:) This rocks. Hard.
I'll keep showing up for you, over and over again. I promise. :)
Okay, so. I've been sitting at the feet of giants for nearly 38 years now.
These are my takeaways from my Mojo Dojo Casa Dream House:
- let them.
- it sounds like there is a lot going on.
- you can only control what you can control.
- be selfish & intentional with your energy. and, time.
- you are the Polly Pocket. You get to choose where you are going & what enters your atmosphere.
Welcome to the Come At Me, Bro village. We've been waiting.
Your third takeaway is a brilliant one, and I agree wholeheartedly. :)
Yeah, the Arthur to my Merlin is ridiculously cleverly kind. I really lucked out :)
Oh man. I hear this and it makes me so sad as we watch art as we know it, slowly and painfully go extinct like a white rhino or those cute little mini vaquita dolphins. We see it happening in slow motion. We protest. We sign petitions. But just like that, the last one is gone forever. I fear this so very much because I want the poets and musicians and artists that I love to be able to feed themselves in return for all they give to the world. Because when you are a creative, the art will always flow out of you. Whether you are sharing it with the whole world, or just your world. You can't stop it from bursting free from your heart and soul. But the stress and strain of staying true to your art and not being eaten up by the system we are all crying out against casts such a dark shadow over those who struggle with the whole starving artist imagery. An imagery that was created by parasitic higher ups the of record labels, streaming platforms and publishers.
The need to be a content creator in addition to being an artist is hard enough, but sure, a new medium to carry forth that which is created. Sounds great. We can make this work... But like the early days of crack, it's only free at first until we are all hooked in so deep that we can't live without it and then all of a sudden, you need to pay if you actually want anyone to see your work. It is the reason why I heart the fuck out of everything on social media. Stories, posts; Facebook, Instagram, TikTok. I am basically like a boomer mom with my likes. Because I KNOW that when people like my posts and stories, they get seen way more. I use social media for fundraising and if I don't pay to boosts posts it makes it really hard to get our message out. I also notice that even though I have way more followers on my work pages, I get more attention and interaction when I post on my personal profiles because, they have the algorithms set up to make sure people don't see your pages unless you are paying. Which sucks. And maybe it is a worthwhile investment, and maybe this is where marketing budgets are allocated to now instead of magazine ads or billboards, but that doesn't help the small independent people out there just trying to organically get their message out. So if I can help others by liking all their shit, I am not too cool to be elusive with my hearts!
So maybe that is how we can all beat the system. It is actually the very least we can do to show someone our support. Just like all the things! Support your independent artists in spaces like this and pay the five bucks a month to the creative people who touch your soul and motivate your healing and growth as a person; who give you the soundtrack and imagery to your own emotions. Buy books and records and merch whenever possible and whatever you spend on the convenience of streaming, be sure the spend the same by supporting an independent artist each month. Because if we are not careful, it will all be AI garbage and we will be too numb to even notice.
It is hard to quantify the gratitude I feel for what art gives me. How can we pay someone back for how a song or a poem makes us feel? When it gets us through the worst or the best moments of our lives? A bag of coffee? Exotic spices? Random secondhand clothing? A couple bucks a month? Doesn’t feel like it adds up on the scales of reciprocity, but I’m grateful when I can do something to show the artists that mean so much to me, that what they do matters and that the world is a better place thanks to what they give us.
Wow Heather, touche on every single bit of this. What a thoughtful addition to this conversation, as per usual. We had a long talk about this at Gregory's last show, the strange reality that we cannot just be artists anymore, we have to be snake oil salespeople, we have to be online performers, marketers, grifters. It's sad.
Supporting artists is the most important thing, in whatever capacity we can. Your closing paragraph just shows how beautiful you are inside and out, and all your support is beyond appreciated, I hope you feel that every day.
Love yas like my Mom loves every single thing I post on Facebook! ❤️
It feels like a reflection of the political, if people feel they aren't represented they disengage and become isolated. If they feel they are being spoken to directly in a way that is meaningful they step forward.
Voices who help people connect with those who are different by definition cannot be beige, they express those truths that reflect the spectrum of life that we all experience.
Commercial interests like big Pharma, big Ag and big Publishing need to be challenged - humanity and our planet is not served when big Profit is their only driving force.
Power to poets with a small p who yes need to make a buck and may be commercially successful but do not have Profit as their god.
Wonderful points here Rose, wonderful. "Power to the poets with a small p" WOW. We need shirts.
“Social media” is one of the best and worst things that has happened in my lifetime. Best because I see more pictures of my faraway family and friends than I would if we were still relying on landline phones and letters in the post. Worst because things don’t have to be real or good, just trendy. I’m yet to read a “booktok sensation” that’s been worth a damn. But they are in every bookshop and coming soon to theatres near us because they managed to work the system and get the hype. But when I want to find a poem to send to a friend in need, I go to my bookshelf, not my phone. So I really hope you get that publishing deal, Tyler. Can we do a pre-order type thing to demonstrate demand?
YES Kit, best and absolutely worst. And as for the book, I have some stuff in the works, and your support will be absolutely vital when it's time. Trust that. :)
I feel this so deep in my core. And it is one of my great internal struggles. We need passion in the art we consume or it becomes propaganda. Art is meant to expand our worlds. Transport us on a budget. Open our minds and expand empathy. But the business of art kills that.
I heard an AI created song and felt it stab the hope out of my heart. So I wrote a poem about it. And now I'm writing a book about it. I wish we lived in a world where I know it could get published. That it could reach people that need to hear it. But we don't. And maybe that's reason enough for me to keep working at it. Become a rebel against the machine.
I feel your sentiments here. And I wish for all artists big and small to find ways for true, passionate, creatively to shine through.
"We need passion in the art we consume or it becomes propaganda." WOW Ellie. What a powerhouse of a statement. Oof.
Please keep working, keep sharing, because there are eyeballs that need your work. Please.
I feel this. My two cents, as someone who works as a freelancer in the publishing world - self-publishing can be a damn good way to go these days! You have the audience.
Touche Rachel...Also, someday I'd love to pick your brain about making some extra income going back to the freelancing world, where I spent many years before all this.
I would love to chat! Any time :)
First of all, I would kill for another book. I have every book you've published and am always hungry for more. Even if you have to self-publish, I think you should do it. Always find a way to share your art. You already know there's plenty of us out there ready to consume it and celebrate it.
Second, I feel the social media struggle deeply. Having two businesses of my own, I feel like I'm supposed to be "playing the game" and trying to get more engagement so I can grow and yada yada. But so much about social media feels inauthentic to me. I prefer to post quality over quantity. Even if it only amounts to a few posts a month. I struggle with the guilt of not posting or engaging though, because it seems to be quite literally required of us these days if we want to be successful in the world. But I will continue to fight the status quo and try to use social media in the most authentic ways I can. I may never be "famous" or "viral," but I know the work I do and the art I create is important. The people that matter find me and support me in other ways. I truly hope for a day when social media can dwindle a bit, go back to basics, become more about the connection and sharing of genuine moments that we used to love.
No need to kill. I MIGHT have some news to talk about pretty soon. Fingers crossed ;) And yes, to all you said. I'm so very sick of playing the game. Even here, trying to convince more people to be paid subscribers, I'm just at a total loss how to do so, but it's so hard keeping this place running with how much work it involves without that support. How do I convince even 10% of people that it's worth $5 a month? You'd think 1 out of every 10 would think so. :(